Devoted to the Propagation and Defense of New Testament Christianity
VOLUME 13
September 7, 1961
NUMBER 18, PAGE 14a

Cargile-Martin Debate

Stanley J. Lovett, Beaumont, Texas

The week of June 26, 1961, Barney Cargile, Jr., gospel preacher, met Clarence V. Martin, Baptist preacher, in a public discussion on Baptism and Apostasy in Anderson, South Carolina.

Brother Cargile, a young man of less than ten years preaching experience and more than a score of years younger than his opponent, did very fine work in both presenting and defending the truth. He had made thorough preparation beforehand and was master of the situation throughout.

Martin, and to the writer this was the most unusual aspect of the whole discussion, preaches for a church that is a member, of the Southern Baptist Convention. He is the first of the SBC preachers that we have heard of in years who was willing to defend his teaching publicly. All the Baptist preachers who have debated the brethren for years have been the "Bogard-type," i.e., Missionary Baptist (not SBC).

At the very outset it was apparent Martin knew little about debating. He refused to have a moderator declaring the Holy Spirit would moderate for him! But since he later said the next debate he would have a moderator, we could only conclude he thought the Holy Spirit had failed as his moderator.

Martin was very weak on both propositions both affirming and denying. He was absolutely unable to deal with Cargile's arguments. For instance his only reply to the argument presented by Cargile on Mark 16:16 was, "a child can see through that!" He took the position that the baptism of 1 Peter 3:21 was the baptism of suffering. That ruined his previous position that salvation is by faith only. According to that man is saved by suffering as well as by faith only.

He spent some time explaining that not all Baptists nor even all Baptist preachers believe in the impossibility of apostasy. This, perhaps, reflects the situation among Baptists in that Baptist stronghold. One of his principal arguments on Apostasy was based on 1 Peter 1:3-5 where he strongly emphasized that "by the power of God are guarded" unto salvation. But Cargile very effectively pointed out that in the very same verse it says man is guarded by the power of God THROUGH FAITH. His salvation can be no more secure than his faith. Martin never made reply to this.

Cargile made the usual arguments showing that baptism is an indispensable condition of salvation. On apostasy in addition to the usual scriptures, etc., he kept before the audience that it was a question, not of "will or won't" but of "can or can't." He conducted himself in striking and emphatic contrast to his opponent.

This discussion presented an opportunity for Baptists to hear the truth who otherwise, perhaps, never would. At the same time it gave brethren there an opportunity to see how weak denominational error is and how strong and effective truth is in combating error. The church is stronger there as a result of the discussion.

The writer served as moderator for Cargile.