Some Later Developments Anent The Norris Debate
Since the lengthy article on the preceding pages was put in type the following letters from the brethren at Fort Worth and Dallas, who have so faithfully labored to bring arrangements to a successful culmination, have been received. These letters speak for themselves.
From, Brother Coleman Overby Dallas 18, Texas
June 26, 1944
Dear Brother Wallace:
We now have the definite word from Norris--he will not under any circumstances meet you. This is settled. We met him for the last time Friday afternoon.
I pressed him to the breaking point on all these matters. All of this I shall labor to show when I write my article. We had this embarrassing situation: Brother J. L. Hines has been carrying on correspondence with him all along-mostly a "War of Roses"-and they have agreed to have a "Radio Debate" this winter. Lately he went to Fort Worth, took his wife, and a stenographer to take down the conversation. When I called for the transcript to get the "low down," it turned out to be plans for their debate. He labors to make this independent of the planned WallaceNorris Debate, but it became an occasion for Norris to back out of the whole affair. Don't think any of us spared Brother Hines-we told him plenty. With it, I told Norris he had completely gone back on his demand for a man of national reputation, and one whom the churches of Christ would endorse, and had taken on a man with only one church behind him. I presume the Sunset church will endorse him-maybe one more. This was all in the presence of Brother Hines. Norris wanted to know if Brother Hines was not nationally known and recognized-he pressed it and thought he had me on the spot, but I told him, no. You should have seen Brother Hines' face. So much for this.
You will let me know when you plan to bring out the Special Edition of the Bible Banner, and what it will cost to bring out the number of copies you think wise. If you want Brother Hicks to use some of the matter before it appears in the Banner; and any other matter necessary to climax your plan. I want to get the churches here, Fort Worth, and Oklahoma City to finance the expense ....
I am ready to go to work on my article so soon as you say the word. We did all we could in this matter. All of the Brethren here cooperated well, excepting Brother Hines -he betrayed us. The boys in Fort Worth are to be commended heartedly.
Sincerely,
Coleman Overby.
* * * *
From Brother Leroy Brownlow. Fort Worth, Texas June 19, 1944
Dear Brother Wallace
I suppose Brother Yater Tant who was in the city last week, told you that Mr. Norris refused the registered letter we sent him. You will find enclosed photostats of the envelope and letter.
Brother Cleo Jones sent you a clipping from Norris' paper of last week, in which he had an article under the caption: "WHY THERE WILL BE NO DEBATE." In our discussion with him, taken down by sound scriber, he said that he would not expect the churches to be unanimous in accepting his challenge; and that he would debate if fifteen churches out of twenty would endorse it. Now, he reverses himself by saying that there will be no debate because some of the laymen of the church of Christ have requested him not to debate and for him to pay no attention to the "young squirts." Why listen to those laymen instead of fifteen churches? What an excuse! From the first day Norris issued his challenge, I have been of the opinion that he would not debate; but I had hoped that none of our brethren would play into his hands and give him such an excuse.
Cleo Jones called me last night and told me that Norris had announced over the air that he was going to have a radio debate with Brother J. L. Hines. That was news to us, for it is not our acceptance of his challenge. Since Brother Jones heard the announcement, perhaps he will write you more about it.
Brother Overby called Saturday night, and is planning to come over this week.
Brotherly yours, Leroy Brownlow.
From Brother Cleo E. Jones Fort Worth, Texas June 26, 1944
Dear Brother Wallace:
I suppose that you already have a letter that Dr. Norris said over the radio last night that he had written you. I don't know what kind of a proposition he made you, some thing though that I imagine would put him in the advantage. Whatever it is, weigh it from all angles and consult with Overby and the two congregations here that have endorsed you for a regular debate. Norris told us last Friday in the conference with him that he would "see you in hell" before he would have another debate with you. I am wondering what has changed his mind unless it be the fact that he is going to get some unfavorable reports concerning the challenge to the Ft. Worth churches. Be sure of every step you take before you take it. He can be handled, but he must be watched. He is a schemer, and his schemes are always for him to be the bully and the other fellow without any sense. Let's keep pressing him and the Truth will come out on top. The brethren here will help in whatever capacity is needed to get that fellow and his false doctrine on the run. I believe he is feeling the weight of it now and is trying to find a way out.
I suppose Bro. Overby has given you the details of that meeting last Friday. He (Norris) was very uncomplimentary of you and not very much of a gentleman in talking to the rest of us fellows. He wilted when Bro. G. A. Dunn, Sr. asked him since he had refused to meet you again, would he meet any other man that these congregations might select. He wants to select his own opponent and it looks like J. L. Hines has allowed him to have his way.
We are at your service in this matter. Let us know what he is trying to do, as he seems to want to deal with you directly. We are for the right, God's word above all else. With the help of our Master we will win a victory for our Saviour, and in His name. Put up a white flag? Never.
Fraternally, Cleo E. Jones.
Norris Seeks To Save His Face Fort Worth 2, Texas June 24, 1944
In his flustered face-saving maneuvering to deliver himself from an unexpected predicament, Norris now attempts to shift the negotiations from the basis of his challenge to the churches of Christ in Fort Worth to a private arrangement with me. And what an arrangement! He wants me to play tail to a kite to be flown by him and Jake Hines! If you have a sense of humor the following letter, typical of Norris when he gets on a hot spot, will bring down the galleries.
* * * *
Rev. Foy E. Wallace
Box 1804
Oklahoma City, Okla.
My dear Sir:
A group of ministers of your church, some dozen, called to see me yesterday with reference to having another debate with you.
Dr. J. L. Hines and I have arranged for a joint- discussion over the radio.
These brethren of yours asked if I were willing also for you to have a discussion over the radio.
I have secured time for Dr. Hines and myself and feel sure that I could secure time for you over the same radio, and without cost to you. I assume every responsibility of the radio, myself. This I am doing with Dr. Hines.
He and I will discuss the following subjects:
First, that Christ will return to the earth in Person, and establish His kingdom on the earth and reign until He has put all enemies under His feet.
Second, that the scriptures teach that baptism of a penitent believer is one of the conditions of his salvation; and unless that penitent believer is immersed he cannot be saved.
Third, that the person born again receives eternal life and can never perish or fall away into perdition.
I have the time from 10:00 until midnight every Sunday night, to be exact 10:15. You could have a free additional use of the same time that Dr. Hines will use.
You can go on immediately after the introduction, or at 10:15. In as much as you have my published position on the above questions it will not be necessary for me to go first. I could take less, or an equal amount of time.
Because of requirements of the radio, it will be necessary to submit your manuscript at least a week in advance, to the radio.
This discussion with you will take place after the discussion with Dr. Hines.
Yours respectfully,
J. Frank Norris.
The following reply was sent to the above ridiculous communication
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
June 28, 1944
Mr. J. Frank Norris
First Baptist Church Fort Worth, Texas
Dear Sir:
This acknowledges receipt of your letter of June 24. Your challenge to the churches of Christ for a debate has been accepted by the churches in Fort Worth, Dallas, and Oklahoma City. I have been asked by the churches in all three cities to represent them in this discussion.
You have received their official acceptance of your challenge, together with propositions signed by me. I am ready to meet you in the debate you demanded at any, or all, of the cities named, and at any date you set-even if I have to cross the continent to do it.
As eager as I am for this discussion, however, I share the feeling of my brethren generally that nothing on earth could ever induce you to meet me again in a public debate under conditions which would preclude the unfair advantages which you seek. In fact, the Ft. Worth brethren have informed me that you, in conference with them last week, in a moment of honest candor, declared you would see me in hell before you would ever, ever get on the same platform with me again in a religious discussion.
It is obvious that you were considerably surprised and chagrined when your challenge to the churches of Christ was accepted. It is also obvious that your chagrin turned into unutterable dread when you realized you might have to face me again. From the first moment you understood this fact, you have made one frantic effort after another to back out of the situation.
Your letter of June 24 is but the latest of these attempts. In it you are seeking to embroil me in a three-way radio wrangle with yourself and J. L. Hines, under conditions which would give you entire control of the complete program. Your stipulation that negative speeches be made before you make the affirmative, and that they be submitted to you a week in advance, is exactly the sort of unscrupulous advantage you have always sought.
Your challenge for a debate has been accepted; the propositions have been signed and delivered to you. All that remains now is for you to make good on your own boastful assertions and put your signature to the propositions.
Very truly yours,
Foy E. Wallace, Jr.
* * * *
The next issue of the Bible Banner will be devoted exclusively to the publication of all the essential facts with reference to the present developments and the un-revealed facts regarding the debate of ten years ago. Again I call upon our friends and brethren in all parts of the United States to assist in circulating this Special Number in those centers and communities where Norris Propaganda has thrived without exposure for so many years. Send your special order for this issue in lots of one hundred directly. We are for the right, God's word above all else. With the help of our Master we will win a victory for our Saviour, and in His name. Put up a white flag? Never.
Fraternally, Cleo E. Jones. a * * s Norris Seeks To Save His Face Fort Worth 2, Texas June 24, 1944
In his flustered face-saving maneuvering to deliver himself from an unexpected predicament, Norris now attempts to shift the negotiations from the basis of his chal lenge to the churches of Christ in Fort Worth to a private arrangement with me. And what an arrangement! He wants me to play tail to a kite to be flown by him and Jake Hines! If you have a sense of humor the following letter, typical of Norris when he gets on a hot spot, will bring down the galleries.
Rev. Foy E. Wallace Box 1804
Oklahoma City, Okla. My dear Sir:
A group of ministers of your church, some dozen, called to see me yesterday with reference to having another debate with you.
Dr. J. L. Hines and I have arranged for a joint- discussion over the radio.
These brethren of yours asked if I were willing also for you to have a discussion over the radio.
I have secured time for Dr. Hines and myself and feel sure that I could secure time for you over the same radio, and without cost to you. I assume every responsibility of the radio, myself. This I am doing with Dr. Hines.
He and I will discuss the following subjects:
First, that Christ will return to the earth in Person, and establish His kingdom on the earth and reign until He has put all enemies under His feet.
Second, that the scriptures teach that baptism of a penitent believer is one of the conditions of his salvation; and unless that penitent believer is immersed he cannot be saved.
Third, that the person born again receives eternal life and can never perish or fall away into perdition.
I have the time from 10:00 until midnight every Sunday night, to be exact 10:15. You could have a free additional use of the same time that Dr. Hines will use.
You can go on immediately after the introduction, or at 10:15. In as much as you have my published position on the above questions it will not be necessary for me to go first. I could take less, or an equal amount of time.
Because of requirements of the radio, it will be necessary to submit your manuscript at least a week in advance, to the radio.
This discussion with you will take place after the discussion with Dr. Hines.
Yours respectfully, J. Frank Norris.
The following reply was sent to the above ridiculous communication
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma June 28, 1944
Mr. J. Frank Norris First Baptist Church Fort Worth, Texas
Dear Sir:
This acknowledges receipt of your letter of June 24. Your challenge to the churches of Christ for a debate has been accepted by the churches in Fort Worth, Dallas, and Oklahoma City. I have been asked by the churches in all three cities to represent them in this discussion.
You have received their official acceptance of your challenge, together with propositions signed by me. I am ready to meet you in the debate you demanded at any, or all, of the cities named, and at any date you set-even if I have to cross the continent to do it.
As eager as I am for this discussion, however, I share the feeling of my brethren generally that nothing on earth could ever induce you to meet me again in a public debate under conditions which would preclude the unfair advantages which you seek. In fact, the Ft. Worth brethren have informed me that you, in conference with them last week, in a moment of honest candor, declared you would see me in hell before you would ever, ever get on the same platform with me again in a religious discussion.
It is obvious that you were considerably surprised and chagrined when your challenge to the churches of Christ was accepted. It is also obvious that your chagrin turned into unutterable dread when you realized you might have to face me again. From the first moment you understood this fact, you have made one frantic effort after another to back out of the situation.
Your letter of June 24 is but the latest of these attempts. In it you are seeking to embroil me in a three-way radio wrangle with yourself and J. L. Hines, under conditions which would give you entire control of the complete program. Your stipulation that negative speeches be made before you make the affirmative, and that they be submitted to you a week in advance, is exactly the sort of unscrupulous advantage you have always sought.
Your challenge for a debate has been accepted; the propositions have been signed and delivered to you. All that remains now is for you to make good on your own boastful assertions and put your signature to the propositions.
Very truly yours, Foy E. Wallace, Jr.
* * * *
The next issue of the Bible Banner will be devoted exclusively to the publication of all the essential facts with reference to the present developments and the un-revealed facts regarding the debate of ten years ago. Again I call upon our friends and brethren in all parts of the United States to assist in circulating this Special Number in those centers and communities where Norris Propaganda has thrived without exposure for so many years. Send your special order for this issue in lots of one hundred.-F. E. W., Jr.