The Hogland-Barr Debate On Baptism
The proposition for the second night was: "The scriptures Teach That Alien Sinners Are Saved At the Point Of Faith, Before and Without Water Baptism." Mr. Barr affirmed and Brother Hogland denied.
Barr's first affirmative: Barr insisted that Hogland should baptize a child of God every time he falls away, since Hogland admitted that a child of God could become a "lost unbeliever," which Barr said was the same as an alien sinner. Barr said that there is no negative scripture on baptism as there is on faith. For instance, John 8:24 says, "If ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." Barr asked for a scripture which said, "If ye are not baptized ye shall die in your sins." He had previously written John 3:18 on the board: "He that believeth is not condemned." He also wrote the opposite, "He that believeth is condemned." He invited Hogland to erase the sentence he did not believe. Hogland erased the second sentence because it was in opposition to scripture, and explained that he did believe John 3:18, but that it does not mean "faith only." Barr continued to press this incident, saying that Hogland had erased his own position. Barr also brought up some examples of salvation before Christ died, and said that people in every age were saved just like they are saved today. He of course brought up the thief on the cross.
Hogland' s first negative: Brother Hogland showed that erring children of God do not have to be re-baptized because they are taught to repent and pray for forgiveness, which is the second law of pardon. In answer to Barr's argument about no negative scripture on baptism, Hogland said that Barr would accept Christ's command only if it were phrased in words acceptable to Barr. It was enough that Christ had said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." Hogland said that if Mr. Ford should come to Greenville and say, "He that believeth and is baptized shall receive a new Ford," Barr would be the first in line to be baptized. Mr. Ford would not have to say, "He that is not baptized shall not receive a new Ford." As for Barr's arguments on the thief on the cross and other cases before Christ's death. Hogland showed that Christ had power on earth to forgive sins, but that his testament had not yet come into effect at that time. The Bible teaches that a testament becomes effective only after the death of the testator. Therefore, baptism as a part of the gospel was not required until after Christ died. Hogland also pressed Barr on his charge of "baptism only." He compared the plan of salvation to a trip of five miles. And even though you have to go the fifth mile in order to reach your destination, you do not get there by the fifth mile only. Brother Hogland brought up James 2:24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." He also introduced James 2:17, "Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead, being alone." He charged Barr with trusting in a dead faith.
Barr's second affirmative: In answer to the argument on James, Barr said that works justify us to men but not to God. He made no other serious argument in this speech. The rest of his time was devoted to misrepresenting Brother Hogland. Hogland called a point of order. After that Barr seemed to have lost all control and organization of his thoughts. He said that Hogland could throw him out, knock him down, or tackle him if he wanted to, but that he would still preach Jesus to the people! His supporters began to say, "amen"! which had been ruled against in the very beginning of the debate. In his ranting, Barr made an amazing statement. He said, "Jesus never did say, 'He that believeth and is baptized shall receive salvation."' Thus he directly contradicted Mark 16:16, since there is hardly any difference in "shall be saved" and "shall receive salvation." Throughout this speech Barr showed the frustration of obvious defeat. Hogland's second negative: Hogland pointed out to the audience that any weakness they might observe in Mr. Barr's debating was not weakness in Barr himself, but in his unscriptural position. He quoted from one Baptist reviewer who praised Barr as being the best Baptist debater since Ben M. Bogard. Going back to James 2, Hogland showed that Abraham was justified by faith and works, and that these works justified him to God, not to men. When Abraham offered Isaac there was no one else present but the two of them. Yet James 2:21 says, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" Brother Hogland again showed that the difference between Barr and himself was over what kind of faith. Hogland believed in faith which is active (a living faith), and Barr believed in faith which is inactive (a dead faith.)
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